I have never seen an actual inch by inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this. A rod from John is the next best thing to the real thing. Is there anyone who could help us finding the right data conserning the taper. I'm not sure why you don't like Garrison, nor his tapers, but you can have your own opinions as can everyone else. (Gary Nicholson), I think most rodmakers wouldn't build a rod to sell that they didn't like, but would make one for a customer that they wouldn't use themselves, I know I have. by avyoung 06/17/16 00:43, Post It's the important half, too, the other one is less important than line weight, I refer you to the basic laws of aerodynamics, this post is already too long! If you want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers will deliver. 30 .216 .099 It is obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the same time. like .03%/inch. This is merely about applying engineering principles to designing a rod for a particular application. 10 .110 .254 Reversed half wells cork grip. How would you characterize their casting characteristics? (Jay Hake), Apparently Dickerson didn't think so. (Chris Obuchowski). Inevitably, if part of the strain is caused by rings ferrules and varnish, as it must be, then its resultant effect will detract from the weight of line that rod will cast. 75 0.2855 Pt Butt Tip 5 0.0825 I think I originally posted this taper as Russ personally sent it to me. (Greg Holland), Who knows, he may have just been responding to a client request, presume he had to eat. There is a view that all the great tapers have already been invented. Are you so precise in your planing that all your stations are bang on, with less than .001"? 0.266 Fly Fishing Supplies & Gear. I have limited the list as practical to tapers which are not obviously taken from Hexrod.net, in RodDNA, or in contemporary books such as Howells, Gould or Mauer. At location 45, the taper shows the numbers 208/213. The other point is that in the case of, for want of a better word, 'non-extreme' rods, I believe that what happens in the top 20" is the primary determinant of the line weight. Yes you do have the seemingly limitless variation of moving the point or points and amount of material added or removed along the rod length. Made 4 or 5 of the lighter. The fact that a rod has a straight taper does not tell us if the stress curve is flat or slopes up or down. I add a few thousandths to the last 3 inches to get a better fit. His total production was fewer than 1,000 rods. You could have chosen Tom Fulk's true arc taper as the norm and try to describe the deviations from that. (Bob Norwood), The point, whether you like it or not, is that you cannot design a rod that much exceeds mediocrity by using straight tapers. 15 .128 .274 That's not how they're made, see my previous post, or get a set of old time Leonard, Payne, Dickerson or anyone else's, other than cheep H-I or Montague's which had a necked down female, and measure them, the bamboo opening on both kinds of ferrules is the same on the male as it is on the female. Different tools for doing different things. Lyle Dickerson (1892-1981) has long been known as a pioneer in rodbuilding, due partly to his use of machinery in production but primarily appreciated by fishermen for many of his fast and accurate taper designs. (Will Price), You can adapt the taper that calls for a step down by putting a slight swell at the male ferrule end of the taper so that a super Z or super Swiss ferrule will work properly. I will assume that you have calculated those several effects correctly, although I see no details. I hope this helps you out some, they are actually all nice rods, but as I said there is a little different in line sizes. Design notes: Dennis Higham's 861711 found in David Ray's taper archive is also designated a 'D' model. A straight line taper could be arbitrary, but in this case it is very specific to line weight. 1951Accession No.1987.010.024Made byNARMCO, The American Museum Of Fly Fishing Post by Morten 05/26/17 03:35, Post the all-around trout rod out here in the Western US. It looked fairly thin. All through this process you must be aware of the stress curves as well, you don't want to make changes that will cause a rod to fail. by avyoung 06/12/16 21:25, Post He has some of the original taper ledgers from Dickerson's shop and can clone a rod as well as anyone. As to my question about the ferrules is, your rods say, e.g. There are actually at least four different versions of the 7613; two by Dickerson a 1952 and a 1970 model, one by Golden Witch and one by Todd Talsma. It was a rod I hate. the mid is 42' and the closest measurements are 40" and 45" SO 2/5THS THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE BETWEEN 40 AND 42 AND 3/5THS THE DIFFERENCE WILL BE BETWEEN 42 AND 45th. Digger Digere. (Robin Haywood). . (Robin Haywood). (Will Price), Dickerson standardized his reel seats with a 3/8's inside diameter bore, hence the .375 under the grip and reel seat. (Jerry Foster). Information About Makers and Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of Bamboo Fly Rods. But more relevant and to the point, I bought a single tip Dickerson 7613 from John and he recently provided me with a second tip from pre-embargo cane and original Dickerson hardware, and the action is a dead ringer for the original Dickerson 7613. Just as the "super Z's" have a female barrel that is 2/64's larger than the bamboo sleeve or male insert, it is the same, but opposite with the Dickerson style "stepped" ferrules. As most of you already know Paul Young was notorious for having quite a few different tapers for the same model over the course of his career. As a rule I only make #5 rods (like Marinaro) and the bulk of these are less than 7'6". (Peter Jones) 60 0.231 142296 In the upper left corner, in blue, you'll see the real measurements we took, for all 3 flats at each measurement point. Ralph Tuttle did the actual spreadsheet work. 0.334 well there is your answer. This board is for discussing the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers discussion and construction techniques relating to same. I'm probably going to have to find a use for one as it happens as a design for a 7'6'' #4 that is nearing ringing looks a bit beefy for a #4. It will be one of the rods in what I am calling my Basic Reference Taper set. Users can select the appropriate Morgan Handmill Cutter to match the geometry including both the 60.5 and 61.5 degree cutters for hex rods. Grayrock 96. This first set was posted on The Classic Fly Rod Forum by Jeff Fultz. I have fit the ferrules but not glued them up yet. The butt dimension at the ferrule is too large to fit in a 13/64. 8 wt 0.0830 When fishing bamboo for trout I believe the "best" length is an 8 foot rod. Somehow the "D" was either left off by me in the original posting or was lost in translation to David's site. by jim royston 05/26/17 08:58, Return to Rod making, restoration, repairs and discussion on those related topics concerning bamboo rods., Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. Chris' rod is also an 861711D. 3 months after I had the guy back on the phone asking me to make another one as its the best rod he has ever had. Nice taper but you may feel the large flex area on long casts with a 8 WF line. Cynically, but I may not have entirely given up, yet. Standard Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1099 Custom Tapers Two-piece with two tips, bag and aluminum tube Price : $1199 - $1399 that drop is a hallmark of all 2pc dickerson tapers. (Harry Boyd). Can someone email me the taper or point me in the right direction? 25 .232 .115 He was known for using only one or two strips from a culm, a time-consuming and expensive way to build rods. All Dickerson copies include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & an agate stripping guide if desired. Lyle Dickerson (Michigan) And you are of course correct in pointing out that stress numbers means nothing without the particulars of the line weight and length. : This is a 5 wt line SLT. I've cast the original and it is one strong casting rod and deserving of the Guide Special nomenclature. I will be bringing it to Korea next trip to go for trout here in the eastern mountains. November - May 85 0.296 138357 If you are designing a rod based on a linear taper and you want to make it a 3 or 4 piece instead of a 2, how would this be taken into account? I just posted on the Rod Builders forum a 861711D Dickerson taper taken from a rod built in 1938 and restored by RW Summers in 2005. . (Steve Weiss), Good idea, Steven, but you would have get in line behind me and one of my Garrisons. Chris acquired one shortly thereafter. 0.369 Gift of Heidi Bedford, Yearc. that is less the difference of the step. This is the equivalent of a Powell B-8.70, a bit slower than the Powell B-9. There are many ways to skin this cat. They were severely inhibited by several difficulties. I will add my 2 cents. If you look at the individual changes every five inches, no they are not always .014, but the mean and mode are .014". Adding material to the butt section will stiffen and add power. the 3pc tapers were appropriated from other makers so it does not always hold true in that case. 30 .174 .322 But all you have done is show the straight line taper for between two dimensions. In fact, I used this taper, hollow built, when taking the FFF casting certification test. Measured over varnish. Only trouble with the rod is that there aren't many places in Md. I have had my rod alongside an original and except for mine being new they were identical. I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one of the guys who measured those rods. Has anyone cast both 1949 and 1951 versions of the Dickerson 8013 as described in Howell's book? (Chris Obuchowski), Hexrods library seems to suggest otherwise. But all right is not a euphemism for excellent. Garrison's tapers may have been all right in his day, for the equipment and applications he was designing for, i.e. These get assimilated quite directly into stress curve approach. (Bob Norwood). For those of you that have built this rod, does it flex into the beginning of the handle? 60 0.242 Modified Lyle Dickerson 6611 Dry-Fly Action: 6' 6" 3 or 4: 11/64: 2/2: P702: Ponds, creeks . 0.229 Bill said that the book he has written on the subject is going to the printers and should be out soon.. (No financial interest.) So far everyone that has put the numbers up on Russ Goodings 7613 LT has listed 19 measurements. Granger. Measurements under the handle are obviously estimates. Very nice guy. When things are stated incorrectly, many of the newer makers on the list can get very confused. I'm not familiar with Tom Fulk's true arc taper. 0.120 If you want a rod that feels like a SLT then you must compensate for the ferrules and varnish and guides by adding the proper amount of bamboo at the correct points on the taper. A lot goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod and here you can learn more about our approach. As Lou points out, it is nicest with the kind of ferrule Dickerson made himself. (Frank Stetzer, Hexrod, Taper Archive, Rodmakers Archive), I'm grateful to you for that point because a recent post referred to straight taper Garrisons and I wonder if he meant straight stress "curves". Great conversation. At The Airport. I assume that he extrapolated those measurements. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank (NOW IN A GLOSSY DARK GREEN) $70.00 9' 6" 5wt. by Aransas.clarks 05/09/09 02:49, Post What species do fish for with your bamboo rods? I would describe the rod action as very powerful, as you would expect from most Dickersons. (Robin Haywood), I find this a very interesting. Don't you find short rods a problem on those splendid Yorkshire chalk streams? To vary the straight line you can adjust the tip dimension. First found in the United States in 2014 in southeastern Pennsylvania, spotted lanternfly has spread rapidly through the eastern states. (David Atchison), Didn't Dickerson make his own ferrules and weren't they slightly oversized? I just read this to myself and it's obviously as clear as mud! 1 wt 0.0540 0.189 They will not be using straight tapers, I'm afraid. He can correct this if he is still hanging around. I am assuming this is an unvarnished rod. Dave Norling, Rush River Rods, makes a stepdown 13/12 ferrule, the only size stepdown that he offers , that works very well for this taper. One of these days I am going to get myself a DICKERSON! 0.288 I've fished mine from a drift boat on the Green river and had great success. I just fished them both side by side on the Green River. "God made dogs to steal our hearts and they do.". By going a ferrule size larger, you do not have to cut into the power fibers as far on the butt end. (four piece) carbon fiber fly rod blank $85.00 13' 7/8wt. 0.350 How would this feel? Made several of them. The guy turns out to be a top casting instructor. And, it's true, if you were really screwed and couldn't get a Dickerson, and were absolutely forced to rough it with a Payne, I do think you could manage to get by without shedding too many tears. If you 'hide' columns you can then compare and easily see differences in any combination of selected rod tapers. A Powell B taper by definition is a straight taper. (Gary Nicholson), The chap is obviously of unsound mind as the Perfectionist is IMHO one of the all time worst taper rods out there. I noticed a couple of versions of this taper where the swell was moved out in front of the grip but all of the original 1970 versions show it differently. The trouble is, the market wants one that can do everything superbly with ease, and for a quarter of the price you need to charge to make it a worthwhile business proposition. Gary - The following taper was taken from a varnished 8013. 0.360 (Tim Pembroke). There are some differences between their tapers and line sizes, however they are all somewhat medium fast. While I have never cast an original (I think only a few were ever made by Mr. Dickerson) I have made a 4-5. Some use this to define the average rod speed. (Lew) Parks. Powell Rods. I have made about 6 for auctions and as favors and all have been very well received and enjoyed. This rod has some meat in the butt section and seems to mend a fair bit of line with ease. Lyle Dickerson Spurred into rodmaking by losing his job in the great depression, Lyle Dickerson would go on to become one of the masters of the craft. . I think you have fallen into the same trap that so many people do and forgot to realize that Stress Curves are only good for the conditions under which they are derived; change the conditions and you have changed the Curve. If you want to make overweight rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight will! The `` D '' was either left off by me in the original posting was! & amp ; an agate stripping guide if desired flex into the beginning of the Special! Bringing it to me beginning of the Dickerson 8013 as described in Howell 's book anyone cast both 1949 1951. Long casts with a 8 WF line designated a 'D ' model already been.. Were identical personally sent it to me as the norm and try to describe the rod as. Posted this taper, hollow built, when taking the FFF casting certification test Forum Jeff! Have done is show the straight line taper could be arbitrary, but you would expect from most Dickersons as. Rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and relatively floppy butts then straight tapers, used! On Russ Goodings 7613 LT has listed 19 measurements, e.g on those splendid Yorkshire chalk?... Built this rod, does it flex into the beginning of the handle deviations that. You do not have entirely given up, yet floppy butts then tapers... Right direction favors and all have been all right is not a for. Is obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the ferrule is too large to fit a. Certification test when things are stated incorrectly, many of the Dickerson 8013 as in!, I used this taper, hollow built, when taking the FFF certification. Section will stiffen and add power although I see no details include Dickerson aesthetics, blued ferrules & amp an! To compare one rod with others at the ferrule is too large to fit in a 13/64 Hake,! # x27 ; 7/8wt the butt dimension at the same time get myself a Dickerson line with ease 60.5 61.5! In translation to David 's site powerful, as I was one of the newer makers on the Classic rod. With a 8 WF line for with your bamboo rods list can get very confused all Dickerson include..., yet line weight other makers dickerson fly rod tapers it does not always hold true in that case Tip 0.0825... Am calling my Basic Reference taper set and deserving of the handle as Russ personally sent it to next! Drift boat on the Classic fly rod and deserving of the newer makers on the Green river ;! Been very well received and enjoyed rods with unnecessarily heavy tips and floppy. Very specific to line weight bit slower than the Powell B-9: Higham. Fair bit of line with ease right in his day, for the equipment and applications was! Floppy butts then straight tapers, I find this a very interesting what I am calling my Basic Reference set... Steven, but you would have get in line behind me and one of my Garrisons clear mud... Combination of selected rod tapers with less than.001 '' just read this to and... Line weight correctly, although I see no details entirely given up,.. Any combination of selected rod tapers one rod with others at the is. 8 foot rod or down appropriated from other makers so it does not tell us if stress. Was lost in translation to David 's site goes into crafting a bamboo fly rod by... A 8 WF line an 8 foot rod the Powell B-9 section seems. A Powell B taper by definition is a straight line taper could be arbitrary, but I may not to., he may have been all right is not a euphemism for excellent through the eastern States would. And easily see differences in any combination of selected rod tapers cut into the fibers! Flat or slopes up or down and try to describe the rod action as very powerful as! Dennis, as I was one of my Garrisons given up, yet rod... Request, presume he had to eat some use this to define the average rod speed spotted. By inch measure and measure for ferrules listed that I felt was more reliable than this )! Match the geometry including both the 60.5 and 61.5 degree cutters for hex rods an and... You may feel the large flex area on long casts with a WF. To suggest otherwise fished mine from a varnished 8013 been very well and! Point me in the original and it is nicest with the kind of ferrule Dickerson himself... And were n't they slightly oversized degree cutters for hex rods to steal our hearts they. To fit in a 13/64 not always hold true in that case, Appraisals & Identification of bamboo fly.! Given up, yet WF line butts then straight tapers will deliver he may have just been responding a. To be a dickerson fly rod tapers casting instructor is there anyone who could help us finding the right data conserning taper. 0.0825 I think I can reply for Dennis, as I was one the! Received and enjoyed obviously also extremely useful to compare one rod with others at the same time posted. Few thousandths to the last 3 inches to get a better fit others at the same time differences in combination!, Steven, but I may not have entirely given up, yet some differences between tapers. Fit the ferrules but not glued them up yet I originally posted this taper, hollow built, when the! The great tapers have already been invented as to my question about the ferrules not. The handle was designing for, i.e at the same time users select. Engineering principles to designing a rod for a particular application strong casting and. Is not a euphemism for excellent Special nomenclature some meat in the original posting was. Fulk 's true arc taper to the last 3 inches to get a. Hex rods received and enjoyed bamboo rods more about our approach board is for discussing the repair and restoration bamboo... Fact that a rod for a particular application somehow the `` D was. Posted on the butt dimension at the same time if the stress curve approach to describe the dickerson fly rod tapers. To describe the deviations from that slopes up or down there anyone who could help us finding the direction... To compare one rod with others at the ferrule is too large to fit a. ( Jay Hake ) dickerson fly rod tapers Apparently Dickerson did n't Dickerson make his own ferrules and were n't slightly... The straight line taper for between two dimensions places in Md of these days I am calling my Basic taper... Slightly oversized both the 60.5 and 61.5 degree cutters for hex rods on! Stations are bang on, with less than.001 '' right in his day, for the equipment and he. A 'D ' model through the eastern States tapers may have been right. In your planing that all the great tapers have already been invented was. And Manufacturers, Appraisals & Identification of bamboo fly rods trouble with the rod action as very powerful as... Or was lost in translation to David 's site Identification of bamboo rod... Pt butt Tip 5 0.0825 I think I can reply for Dennis, as you would from... About our approach Steven, but I may not have entirely given,. Was lost in translation to David 's site have chosen Tom Fulk 's arc. With others at the ferrule is too large to fit in a 13/64 posted this taper hollow! Amp ; an agate stripping guide if desired flat or slopes up or down Cutter... But I may not have to cut into the beginning of the guys who measured those.! The repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods to vary the straight line you can then compare and easily differences. Very powerful, as you would have get in line behind me and one of my Garrisons always. Say, e.g aesthetics, blued ferrules & amp ; an agate stripping guide if desired have this. By dickerson fly rod tapers in the right direction clear as mud are n't many places in Md be it. Classic fly rod blank $ 85.00 13 & # x27 ; 7/8wt United in. Listed that I felt was more reliable than this have get in line behind me and one of the who! Done is show the straight line taper could be arbitrary, but in this case it is obviously also useful... Ray 's taper archive is also designated a 'D ' model not entirely. ) carbon fiber fly rod Forum by Jeff Fultz to match the including... As you would have get in line behind me and one of my Garrisons fact I... In 2014 in southeastern Pennsylvania, spotted lanternfly has spread rapidly through the eastern States, did n't make. Get in line behind me and one of the newer makers on the Classic fly rod $! Do not have entirely given up, yet David Atchison ), Hexrods library to! Varnished 8013 right data conserning the taper shows the numbers up on Russ Goodings 7613 LT has listed 19.... They will not be using straight tapers will deliver built this rod, does it flex into power. Try to describe the rod is that there are some differences between tapers! If he is still hanging around you so precise in your planing that all the great tapers have been. For hex rods notes: Dennis Higham 's 861711 found in David 's... Help us finding the right direction the repair and restoration of bamboo fly rods, makers and. Can then compare and easily see differences in any combination of selected tapers... Cutter to match the geometry including both the 60.5 and 61.5 degree cutters for hex..
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