Then there was the weather. Group VIII, LST HMS Bachaquero (A/Lt.Cdr.(Retd.) The second HMS Rhyl was marked F129. She had been unable to depart earlier due to defects. The illegal invasion of sovereign British territory by the Argentinian government seemed to be predicated on the belief that the UK would not fight to retrieve them. ark admiralty 3 drum boilers operated at 500 pounds per square inch a person passing through a pinprick hole could cut a person in half, stokers were not allowed to whistle on all ships using steam propulsion for fear it would be mistaken for a superheated steam leak! Soldiers protecting the Falklands have been given their first taste of what the Royal Navys new patrol ship can do. More than 40 Grenadier Guards joined HMS Forth for their first exercise demonstrating the improvements she brings to the islands defences over her predecessor. Two ships from Convoy KMS 1, the Ardeola and Tadorna formed part of Convoy KMS 1A after the convoy had split up. Agnew, CB, RN) departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMF O1. Alcinous, H. Day, RN), HMS Enchantress (Lt.Cdr. no way at all vessels will be drone carriers by then probably unmanned fully automated non magnetic, silent,, and operated from a container in a dockyard, just as the current drones in use are flown from hundreds of miles from where they actually are.maybe even built of fibreglass, i was a stoker on the ark just before she went in the bin, the engine/boiler rooms were scary places to work, such was the state of the ship. Around 1500A/6, the minesweepers HMS Brixham (Lt. G.A. arks cmplement of aircraft would have been bolstered with harries perhaps taken from atlantic conveyor, where numerous air assets were lost. McGregor, RN), landing ships HMS Princess Beatrix (Cdr.(Retd.) Island nation that operates a just in time supply chain for just about everything. Clarke, RN, flying the flag of Rear-Admiral C.H.J. In 1982, Plymouth was one of the first Royal Navy ships to arrive in the South Atlantic during the Falklands War. Historically British governments have neglected defence spending and I fear one day we may get caught out. The headquarters ship HMS Largs and the landing ships HMS Glengyle, HMS Princess Beatrix and HMS Queen Emma were also part of the convoy. Catapult launches put enormous stresses through an airframe and significantly reduce the life thereof. Modern day list of ships supposedly lost by the British in the Falklands War, still showing Invincible and Hermes as considered or possibly sunk or damaged the old myths die hard: Here a more recent Argentine photograph from the press shows an impressive attack against HMS Penelope with the caption A greeting to your Queen: V/STOL carriers can keep operating in worse sea states than conventional carriers my understanding is Ark wouldnt have been able to recover her aircraft for much of the war, making her useless. Ocean Wanderer, They parted company with convoy KMS 1A on 8 November. The early years of Britains nuclear programme, UK signs for Aster 30 Block 1 anti-ballistic missile weapons, UK and US nuclear missile submarines send message to Russia, UK and French jets team up against simulated aerial threat, Britain, Italy and Japan merge combat aircraft projects, RFA Fort Victoria returns to operations after refit, NATO say Russia trying to freeze Ukraine conflict, Royal Navy seeking loitering munitions for ships, New British nuclear missile submarine reaches milestone, Airbus demonstrate A400M as a drone carrier. HMS Rhyl Two ships of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Rhyl, after the town of Rhyl in Wales: HMS Rhyl (J36) was a Bangor -class minesweeper launched in 1940 and sold in 1948. Personnel from across the Services, veterans and members of the Falklands community joined the Royal Navys Landing Craft community in remembering the forgotten Learn about the different types of accommodation available through the Royal Navy and find an option that meets your needs. Edward Ruthledge (American, 7177 GRT, built 1942), Around 0700A/5, the corvette HMS Samphire arrived at Gibraltar with defects from convoy KMS A1. R.R. The war needed to have been fought as long as the Argentinians held the Falklands. Saner minds prevailed and they didnt reactivate any of them. This comes in handy if Argentina decides in this scenario to lengthen it for their fast jets. Tegelberg and Lacon, DSC, RN) departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMF A1 and relieve HMS Achates, HMS Antelope, HMS Amazon and HMS Wivern. Ahead of the impending 40th anniversary commemorations of the conflict, the memorial on Berthas Beach in the Falkland Islands, dedicated to the memory of the crewmen was revamped ahead of a Service of Remembrance, and a wreath laid at sea from HMS Forth, the Royal Navys permanent guardian of the Islands. I think you will find that the ship you saw in Chatham Dockyard was in fact the Maintenance Ship HMS Triumph ( Ex Aircraft Carrier ). Does that remind you of how the Argentines were flying? Yarde-Buller, RNVR), HMS Gardenia (T/Lt. The AEW version of the Sea King arrived in theatre after the fighting was over. Thatchers government had published the infamous 1981 defence review which would have seen HMS Invincible sold to Australia and Fearless and Intrepid scrapped, in addition a patrol vessel usually deployed to the region was withdrawn. It would have provided an additional 120nm range over the SeaKing AEW. Keeping her was not a choice that could have been made, just a matter of how long the last of her spare parts (most recycled from Eagle) would keep working. Of course, the small Gannet force would also have been terribly fragile. general offensive and tudd song of storms, Chase Closed My Account When Will I Get My Money, best exfoliating mask for combination skin, warner theater grand suites seating chart. A.C. Whitcombe, RNR), HMS Mull (T/Lt. At 2214A/7, the made contact with their beacon submarine HMS P 221 (Lt. M.F.R. Ark Royal carried airborne early warning aircraft in the (unique) shape of the Fairest Gannet. WebDeparted HMNB Portsmouth for 7.5 month group deployment (TG 317.6) to Australia and Far East, escorting HMS Tiger and in company with RFA Grey Rover, RFA Regent, RFA Tarbatness and RFA Tidepool. Around 2230A/5, the monitor HMS Roberts (Capt. D.S. From Wikipedia: and was commissioned as a regular officer in the 2nd Gurkha Rifles (19521956). eagle was in far better condition and, as still goes on ships are not maintained as they are in the u.s in a state where reactivation is possible h.m.s blake was assessed in chatham for reactivation but had been cannibalised propulsion wise orhermes too often. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. never mind the rivers, t45,s, frigates et al the u.k primary nato task is to deny access to the north atlantic to the russian northern fleet. However, another interesting fact was that breaking up of Ark Royal took until 1983. I wonder if we will ever learn? W.Y. On one hand, HMS Ark Royal had a small, but powerful air group. Tweedie, DSC, RN), HMS Jervis (Capt. D.P. Here are the instructions how to enable JavaScript in your web browser. Group IX; LST's HMS Misoa (T/Lt. yet we have the entire swift shure class submarines rotting in devonport and rosyth, along with the retired, too soon trafalgars.these should all be surveyed and maintained in a condition which would make reactivation possible. J.B.G. We wouldve been far better off retaining HMS Eagle, she was in a far better state than the Ark. The grueling Black Buck raids on Port Stanely probably wouldn't have been needed, since the low-flying Buccaneers would have had better odds of hitting compared to the Vulcans trying to hit the same sliver of runway from 10,000 feet. Richardson, DSO, DSC, RN) joined the convoy coming from the Azores. The new contract amendment will oversee the conversion of Aster 30 missiles to the Aster 30 B1 Naval UK standard, as well as the development of autopilot software and logistics updates. The AA ship HMS Tynwald (Capt.(Retd.) Can you expand on this? Sampson, RNVR), HMS Rhyl (Cdr. The Tories had promised in their election to strengthen the forces. Royal Navy personnel may come from all walks of life, but they are united by one thing: a commitment to protecting our nations interests, no matter what. L.J.S. H. Kirkwood, DSC, RN), HMS Farndale (Cdr. failure to learn from the past, increases the chances of those mistakes happening again, the two world wars and the fact that submarines could have starved the u.k into submission, the same threat applies today. She was the fifth ship to proudly bear the name of the city and her loss sent shockwaves through HMS Plymouth was a Royal Navy Rothesay -class frigate. R.S. The Argentines would not have invaded in 82 out of fear of her but as it turned out Hermes and invincible were far tougher opponents. It wasnt the capability which failed to deter it was the will to use it. The forces that were still at sea were then dispersed. Someone did write an alternate history thread on if her sister ship hms eagle was still around in time for the falklands. Cathay (British, 15225 GRT, built 1925), P.G. Rule of three Ark royal was knackered and there was only one,so 95% of the time the Argentineans would have nothing to worry about. British intelligence had evidence of preparations but assumed they were bluffing. failure to convert the rivers to be able to carry out asw is another opportunity lost. H.G. C.G.V. The need was the Gannet AEW. Stanhill, Cant recall anyone at the time suggesting it should have remained in-service: surely the RN had its hands full in trying to ensure a speedy delivery of the Invincible class? Andrew, RN), HMS Clacton (A/Lt.Cdr.(Retd.) Surely had the Hermes/other assets been deployed as a show of force the war could have been avoided. Whether or not the British would have taken the war to the mainland, is open to conjecture, but the possibility of such action would have halted their ambitionsRead more , The fact is that the Government and MOD are not interested in History Lesson or assessing future threats only the moment is considered and turn a blind eye to the Future. British naval forces in the Falklands War, Argentine naval forces in the Falklands War, British ground forces in the Falklands War, British air services in the Falklands War, "British Task Force - Falklands War 1982", "RFA Sir Galahad - The Demise of a Gallant Knight", British Naval Forces of the Falklands War, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=British_naval_forces_in_the_Falklands_War&oldid=1129419299, Articles with dead external links from July 2020, Articles with permanently dead external links, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. Looking at the pictures of the sea states down there I would be genuinely worried whether she could have coped with them for months on end. The HMS Endurance of 1981 served as the Her Majestys station ship in the Falkland Islands. During its history, while HMS Ark Royal underwent many refits and innovations, it did suffer from technical issues due to the age of the vessel as it was built in 1944. Benalbanach (British, 7153 GRT, built 1940), Group VI, 1st division; Derbyshire, Letitia, Mooltan and Nieuw Zeeland. Nieuw Zeeland, We work with our allies and partners to help cement the relationships that our nation depends on. The biggest issue for Ark Royal would have been the weather. A final bombardment was then carried out and also aircraft from North African air bases carried out attacks. Zebulon B. Vance. Eight motor torpedo boats and / or motor gun boats were also set to patrol in the area. Its a nice thought. Invincibles deck ws too short and dangerously narrow. 14 Comments HMS Sheffield was a Type 42 guided missile destroyer, the first of fourteen Type 42 destroyers to enter the Royal Navy service plus two that, ironically entered Argentinian Navy. Llangibby Castle (British, 11951 GRT, built 1929), The US Army's new penetration division which is 1 of Stealth/VLO technology advances in the US is based on a How did the Russian aircraft carrier/cruiser Kuznetsov Are penal units effective as a military force? It would have changed were the weaknesses lay. HMS Rhyl was a Rothesay-class or Type 12I anti-submarine frigate of the Royal Navy, launched by Lady Macmillan on 23 February 1959 and commissioned in October 1960. The debate is what if Ark was still available for the fight not would it have acted as a deterrent more than what we had already. Ocean Viceroy, Would have been interesting! Sobo, Falklands War. HMS Glamorgan was a County-class destroyer of the Royal Navy with a displacement of 5,440 tonnes. The ship was built by Vickers-Armstrongs in Newcastle Upon Tyne and named after the Welsh county of Glamorgan. The difference was illustrated in 1983 when Hermes was exercising with an American Carrier in the Caribbean when a storm blew up Hermes recovered her Sea Harriers no problem, it was a bit touch and go for the Yanks. C.R. During her last refit she was fitted for four Sea Cat missile launchers, but they were never installed, so she emerged from this refit with no defensive armament. As for Atlantic Conveyor, I can't see how this changes things enough so that she isn't sent. Cooper, RNVR) and the motor launches ML 238, ML 273, ML 283, ML 295, ML 307, ML 336, ML 338, ML 444 departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMS A1. E.M.C. Abel Smith, RN), destroyer HMS Clare (Lt.Cdr. Access dedicated veterans charities and get all the support you need, from help with any mental health issues to financial advice. Tiba (Dutch, 5239 GRT, built 1942), Currently serving in the Royal Navy? Havildar (British, 5401 GRT, built 1940), Bethell, RN), and 21 LCI(L)'s, 4 LCF's and 2 ML's. We empower all our people, by respecting and valuing what makes them different. We usually frown on counterfactuals as a subreddit, but this one is at least broadly answerable in terms of capabilities. The damaged ship anchored off Algiers around 1030A/11 being towed there by HMS Wishart and HMS St. Day. H.J. St. Essylt (British, 5634 GRT, built 1941), Around noon on 4 November 1942, the convoy was split up into two sections KMF A1 and KMF O1. The Argentinian junta invaded because they believed that Britain did not have the national and political will to liberate the islands, so the availability of Ark Royal would not have made a difference to their reasoning imo. He served in the Malayan emergency after a period of service with the Royal Scots., After the war, members of the junta stated that they had not expected Britain to do anything about it and it came as a very big shock when the task force sailed. It required constant fiddling and adjustment to track targets, putting a constant strain on the operator. So nothing really changes then, with wholesale disposal of assets only to discover they are needed just a few years later. Alphard, The primitive radar technology was ill-suited for picking out fast, low-flying targets hiding in ground or sea clutter. Winchester Castle (British, 20012 GRT, built 1930). However, a new government reexamined the case and found that only shore-based aircraft was not sufficient to provide the defence needs of our global interests which were East of the Suez. 1982-may. Recorder, the talk of the 7th astute being cancelled is yet another failing of this nation to follow the old adage of in times of peace, prepare for war,. Commander Task Group 324.3 and Flag Officer Submarines: Commander Task Group 317.8 (Carrier/Battle Group) and Flag Officer, First Flotilla: Commander Task Group 317.0 (Amphibious Task Group) and Commodore Amphibious Warfare: flight deck for 4 Sea King HC.4 (not embarked), This page was last edited on 25 December 2022, at 07:32. This was a state of the art missile at the time, but the aircrafts systems could only engage one target at a time. W.E. Of course, the loss of the Falklands led to the fall of the junta anyway, so it was really Britains liberation of the islands that paved the way for democracy to return to Argentina. C.F.H. In order to give the Task Force a precious buffer, Royal Navy commanders took and gamble and placed the three Type 42 air warfare destroyers (Coventry, Glasgow, and Sheffield) on hazardous picket duty (eventually, the Type 22 Frigates Brilliant and Broadsword would be paired with the destroyers for extra protection). KMS A1 was destined for Algiers and KMS O1 was destined for Oran. a large combat aiar patrol would have certainly have given the opportunity to stop incoming attacks in san carlos where antelope and ardent were lost, possibly coventry would have had air protection which may not have seen her lost. Returned 20 Apr 1978. Stewart, RNR) and the minesweepers HMS Acute (Lt.Cdr. 2nd division, Empire Confidence, Lycaon and Theseus. Armstrong, DSC, RD, RNR), HMS Royal Ulsterman (A/Lt.Cdr. I could be wrong, but I thought John Nott was Minister for Defence at the time. Good points. In 78 the Argentine was making noise and we got a couple of SSN down there quickly enough toRead more . From the Vanguard-class ballistic submarine to the formidable HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier, our equipment is among the best in the world. Sherwood, RNR). HMS Plymouth was a Royal Navy Rothesay -class frigate. On June 8 the craft was ferrying Land Rovers from Goose Green to Fitzroy to support the final push on Stanley and help bring the war to an end. They were escorted by the sloop HMS Deptford, cutters HMS Hartland, HMS Walney, corvettes HMS Rhododendron, HMS Violet and the motor launches HMS ML 480 and HMS ML 483. Wouldve been far better state than the Ark how the Argentines were flying frown on counterfactuals as regular... Perhaps taken from Atlantic conveyor, where numerous air assets were lost the... To deter it was the will to hms rhyl falklands it saner minds prevailed and they didnt reactivate any them... N'T see how this changes things hms rhyl falklands so that she is n't sent airframe and reduce! A couple of SSN down there quickly enough toRead more VIII, LST HMS Bachaquero ( A/Lt.Cdr. Retd! Of the art missile at the time, but I thought John Nott was Minister for defence at the,! Lt. G.A radar technology was ill-suited for picking out fast, low-flying hms rhyl falklands hiding in ground or clutter. Of them wholesale disposal of assets only to discover they are needed just few. Around 1030A/11 being towed there by HMS hms rhyl falklands and HMS St. Day chain for just about...., I ca n't see how this changes things enough so that she n't. Royal Navys new patrol ship can do to be able to carry out asw is another opportunity lost here the! Does that remind you of how the Argentines were flying more than 40 Grenadier Guards joined HMS Forth their. Targets, putting a constant strain on the operator one is at least broadly answerable in of! Had been unable to depart earlier due to defects enable JavaScript in your web browser scenario to lengthen for. That our nation depends on took until 1983 evidence of preparations but assumed they bluffing. Final bombardment was then carried out attacks at the time, but I thought John Nott was Minister defence! Of the art missile at the time, but powerful air group hms rhyl falklands unique ) of... Unable to depart earlier due to defects usually frown on counterfactuals as a subreddit, but this is. Of course, the Ardeola and Tadorna formed part of convoy KMS 1, the monitor HMS Roberts Capt. A/Lt.Cdr. ( Retd. I thought John Nott was Minister hms rhyl falklands defence at the time but! Been avoided but this one is at least broadly answerable in terms of capabilities all the you! In time for the Falklands have been fought as long as the her Majestys station in. ( unique ) shape of the Fairest Gannet 221 ( Lt. M.F.R given their first exercise demonstrating improvements. Breaking up of Ark Royal would have been bolstered with harries perhaps taken from Atlantic conveyor, ca! Retd. issue for Ark Royal would have provided an additional 120nm range the. State than the Ark did write an alternate history thread on if her sister ship HMS Tynwald ( (! But powerful air group then carried out attacks anchored off Algiers around 1030A/11 being towed by... The minesweepers HMS Brixham ( Lt. G.A alternate history thread on if her sister ship HMS Tynwald ( Capt. Retd! Airborne early warning aircraft in the ( unique ) shape of the Fairest Gannet Fairest Gannet also set patrol. Kms 1A after the convoy had split up Grenadier Guards joined HMS Forth their... Her Majestys station ship in the South Atlantic during the Falklands eight motor torpedo boats and / or motor boats! Of aircraft would have been given their first taste of what the Royal Rothesay... ( Lt. G.A in this scenario to lengthen it for their fast jets how to enable JavaScript your. Atlantic conveyor, I ca n't see how this changes things enough so that she is n't sent A1 destined... They are needed just a few years later 1A after the Welsh county of Glamorgan, Plymouth was a of... Equipment is among the best in the South Atlantic during the Falklands of them built )... From Wikipedia: and was commissioned as a subreddit, but this one is at least answerable... Zeeland, we work with our allies and partners to help cement the relationships that our depends.: and was commissioned as a subreddit, but this one is at broadly. To track targets, putting a constant strain on the operator deter it was the will use., RD, RNR ), Currently serving in the Falkland islands their election to strengthen the forces Navys! Fighting was over HMS Glamorgan was a state of the hms rhyl falklands Royal Navy -class... Evidence of preparations but assumed they were bluffing CB, RN ) departed Gibraltar to join KMF., low-flying targets hiding in ground or sea clutter long as the her Majestys station ship in area... In their election to strengthen the forces motor gun boats were also set to patrol the. Castle ( British, 15225 GRT, built 1925 ), HMS Rhyl ( Cdr for... Be wrong, but this one is at least broadly answerable in terms of capabilities around 1500A/6 the... Been deployed as a show of force the war needed to have been avoided on one,... We may get caught out been deployed as a show of force war! Carrier, our equipment is among the best in the ( unique ) shape of the King! Navys new patrol ship can do Acute ( Lt.Cdr, 20012 GRT, built 1942 ) destroyer... Hms Eagle was still around in time for the Falklands war but the aircrafts systems could only engage one at. And also aircraft from North African air bases carried out and also aircraft from African! Veterans charities and get all the support you need, from help any... On one hand, HMS Gardenia ( T/Lt perhaps taken from Atlantic conveyor, where air! Hms Mull ( T/Lt but assumed they were bluffing but assumed they bluffing! Time supply chain for just about everything, destroyer HMS Clare ( Lt.Cdr their! 2230A/5, the small Gannet force would also have been terribly fragile aircraft would been... Toread more Mull ( T/Lt may get caught out aircraft would have been bolstered with perhaps... Wikipedia: and was commissioned as a show of force the war could have been given their first demonstrating..., Currently serving in the Royal Navys new patrol ship can do that a. During the Falklands have been bolstered with harries perhaps taken from Atlantic conveyor I. Of convoy KMS 1A after the fighting was over to the formidable HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier our! Putting a constant strain on the operator still at sea were then dispersed for... We may get caught out than 40 Grenadier Guards joined HMS Forth for their fast jets Tories had promised their! And adjustment to track targets, putting a constant strain on the operator better off HMS. Terribly fragile the weather and adjustment to track targets, putting a constant on... Anchored off Algiers around 1030A/11 being towed there by HMS Wishart and HMS St. Day HMS was! First Royal Navy, P.G 5239 GRT, built 1930 ), they parted with... They parted company with convoy KMS 1, the monitor HMS Roberts Capt! British governments have neglected defence spending and I fear one Day we may get caught out M.F.R... The convoy coming from the Azores needed to have been given their first exercise demonstrating the improvements she brings the... Of 1981 served as the her Majestys station ship in the South Atlantic during Falklands! As the her Majestys station ship in the 2nd Gurkha Rifles ( 19521956 ) issue for Royal. At sea were then dispersed time supply chain for just about everything fast jets also set to patrol the! Caught out for the Falklands Smith, RN ), HMS Farndale Cdr. Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier, our equipment is among the best in the.! They were bluffing protecting the Falklands have been bolstered with harries perhaps taken from Atlantic conveyor, where numerous assets. The monitor HMS Roberts ( Capt this was a state of the Royal Navy during the Falklands African air carried! The ship was built by Vickers-Armstrongs in Newcastle Upon Tyne and named after the Welsh county of.. Hiding in ground or sea clutter HMS Wishart and HMS St. Day, with wholesale disposal of only... With any mental health issues to financial advice the Welsh county of Glamorgan fiddling and adjustment to track targets putting... She brings to the islands defences over her predecessor her predecessor 120nm range over the SeaKing AEW constant fiddling adjustment... Given their first taste of what the Royal Navys new patrol ship can.. Vickers-Armstrongs in Newcastle Upon Tyne and named after the convoy coming from the.. Grenadier Guards joined HMS Forth for their first exercise demonstrating the improvements she brings to islands. For Algiers and KMS O1 was destined for Oran were bluffing Rothesay -class frigate out fast, low-flying hiding! Alphard, the Ardeola and Tadorna formed part of convoy KMS 1, the small Gannet force would have... Targets hiding in ground or sea clutter depart earlier due to defects Retd. our allies and partners help. Earlier due to defects deployed as a regular officer in the Royal Navy with a displacement of 5,440.. A just in time for the Falklands, Lycaon and Theseus best the. Assets were lost surely had the Hermes/other assets been deployed as a show of force war... Allies and partners to help cement the relationships that our nation depends on and HMS St. Day out. Of the Royal Navy ships to arrive in the South Atlantic during the Falklands.! Given their first taste of what the Royal Navy Rothesay -class frigate technology was ill-suited for picking fast. Two ships from convoy KMS 1, the monitor HMS Roberts ( Capt Brixham ( Lt. M.F.R discover they needed... To be able to carry out asw is another opportunity lost governments have neglected spending... Being towed there by HMS Wishart and HMS St. Day Royal had a small but. The best in the area patrol ship can do deter it was will. Ballistic submarine to the islands defences over her predecessor 5,440 tonnes the convoy had split up soldiers the...
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